The first part of Zeitgeist made me question the U.S. government. The way the producers broke down the 911 "explosion" had me thinking it may have been the government who caused the supposedly "Terrorist Attack". The second part went more into depth which continued me question it. The way we have a small amount of people to control the inflation of our money is strange.
The first part of Zeitgeist really got to me and open my eyes to religion. I mean not all of that could have been plan by the devil. That would be just plain idiotic to believe that. So many stories just like jesus and one even in the bible. I am one who already question religion but this just gave me everything i need to see the truth. Part 1 was very inspiring so now i will do my own research into it.
Oh I believe I am the first person to correctly do this:). *coughs* extra credit *coughs*. Okay the first of part of Zeitgeist was by far the most interesting thing that has happened in our TOK class. Some parts were boring, hence me falling asleep. It was interesting how these people were directly challenging the Christian religion. Zeitgeist claims that Horus the sun god was one of the myths that early Christians borrowed to develop the initial idea of Jesus Christ. Zeitgeist claims that Jesus and Horus had many similarities. They were basically denying the existence of Jesus. Which is hard to believe, because for some of us religion is beat into us from a very young age. All we have ever known is that religion and its interesting to have it questioned and have other possibilities out there. In the end, religion always comes down to personal interpretations and belief. So everybody is entitled to there opinion. Ready to see the rest of it:)
I'm glad to read that you found something interesting :-). As you transition into adulthood, you will have to gain some stamina for dealing with what you consider "boring." I'm bored and going to sleep is not going to blaze a path for your success in college or the workforce. Be alert and focused!
Now, focus on your statement "Which is hard to believe, because for some of us religion is beat into us from a very young age." Name that fallacy! :-)
I think that the first part of the zeitgeist by far one of the most thought provoking and intresting documetries I have ever seen. I personally love documentries and watch alot of them and so far part 1 has made zeitgeist one of my favorites. The movies explinations about the constant use of certain numbers and themes in the bible, and how they relate to past religions was very eye opening. I think that this movie also shows were peoples minds are in the scence of faith. Those who believe in christ see movies like this and they test your faith with facts. The whole point of religion being called "faith" is because there are not many facts, there simply is "faith". Everyone believes or dosnt believe for their own reasons however for someone who dosent believe this would be the perfect defense of why..
Thanks for your post, Jordan. You bring up a very good point--"faith" is not "reason."It's OK to have faith, just don't use faith as evidence in a reasoned argument.
While watching the first part of Zeitgeist my mind started wondering. This movie made me understand that there is more to things than it seems. Although this movie went against everything that i was taught to believe in, it really made me think. In all honesty I truly enjoyed the argument because of all the new facts that were brought to my attention. Although I don't particularly agree, I truly support an argument that has facts to back it up....
Thanks Diamond! Welcome to critical thinking! I am not saying Zeitgeist is right or wrong--that is up to you to decide. I try to provide you with the tools to recognize fallacies and argument structures. :-)
Zeitgeist finally brought out something I always wondered. The control religion has on people and it went into far more detail as to how these religious ideas are formed and where they come from. Its easy to write an essay on the topic but right now we can only write a comment on a blog post. Zeitgeist interestingly doesn't actually attack Christian people, it only attacks the people who control the religion. In class people quote it as saying "Jesus did not exist" that's not what it said, it said that "there's proof that the figure known as Jesus did not exist" its not stating religion is a lie, its saying that religion has no backing to it, when looking for support to prove religion you run into several older stories that predate Christianity. The problem is we give Christians uncalled for importance. Think about it: greek, roman and Norse mythology is just that, a myth. Its completely accepted that these one time religions are myths, why? What makes them different from Christians? Thor, Norse god of thunder, had the same story as Jesus as shown in the video. So why is Jesus a historical, religious figure but Thor is a bedtime story? The documentary also said that maybe Christianity was made by the roman people so they could control the world. Which they did successful for hundreds of years also stated in history books and Zeitgeist. 2000 years ago, Thor and the Asgardian gods had the same controlling authority as Jesus and god. Yet Thor is now fake and Jesus is real. And as it showed that the bible shows of a new age, thors age ended and jesus' age came and soon it will go too. Im not saying Christians have a fake religion or even that the Norse gods don't exists, I'm saying that like it says in the documentary every religion has its time and it will pass. every religion is taken so seriously that it corrupts our society. The crusades, the Inquisition, the witch trials, "donating" to god in a church, the pope. All these figures and ideas are just people taking things to far and not the fault of the religion. Thor mint exist and Jesus might exist but you don't have to use that to control everything you do. The bible is a collection of STORIES that teach you LESSONS. Its not there to frame your society around, its there to teach you morals and to be good people. Its not there for the reward of heaven and hell after death, its there to make you good people NOW. Not in the afterlife cause what does that matter? Lets say heaven and hell doesn't exist. If nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do cause that's ALL THERE IS. What we do, Thor was a hero his brother was a liar, the lesson? Be kind fair and just. The bible? Don't hurt others by way of murder or lies or sex, be good people. Why is this simple simple simple idea turned into "Jesus is the only one! You are all wrong! Forget human math! Ascend to heaven!" Newsflash, heaven is death, are you saying be good people just so you get a reward? Lets see...doing something because you get something out of it? Isn't that...I don't know....selfish? Is that what your learning? Cause If so I don't want that. People have to want to be good people. The bible, Thor, Zeus, mars, Jupiter are all throughout history to tell us the same basic story of being good people, not to regard every word they say as authority and dominant with there message. To paraphrase Zeitgeist, take truth as the authority rather then authority as the truth. Just cause the church says "join the crusades and be saved" don't do it. If you truly want to be saved you'll be a good person by nature and you won't do it just so you get into heaven.
I truly enjoyed reading your post Steve! You bring up several interesting issues (religion as a tool for social control, exclusive claims on truth by religions, is religion necessary for morality?) and you make distinctions between various claims.
Part 1 of zeitgeist was a real eye opener for me. Seeing all the connections and similarities between Jesus and the messiahs of other religions has changed my mind on religion. I already had suspicions that religion was used as a means to manipulate people but the movie confirmed it for me. I myself don't blindly follow religion but I've seen people do so like the movie describes. As far as im concerned religion is just the same story being passed around with different characters and different events. The reason why, to me at least, Christianity is recognized but things like Greek myths aren't is because the myths stopped being able to control people. Part 1 helped me to further realize that the government and other higher ups have and are lying to people through things like religion.
Part 1 of Zeitgeist really had me thinking about the truth behind religion. I always use to think the religion was a way for people to look forward to something. That they needed something to believe in. I use to think that religion was just another set of rules for people to follow. As far as Zeitgeist, it proved my point on the fact that religion chains people to what they can and can't do because of that fear they have on where they may go after death. The fact that there's a link between Jesus and other almighty people of other religions made me realize and see the connection that the same story is being told just with different names. It made me wonder what was the truth? I'm not saying that what was said in the movie was all true but they did make valid points about religion the made me wonder if what I grew up being told was all true.
So when we first began talking about the movie and i found out the name was Zeitgeist and you explained how it meant time ghost, I thought that it would be boring. This movie in my opinion is ine of the best movies i have seen so far. Part I dealt with religion a sunject that not people talk about due to personal reasons. I liked it because it made me think. It gave a logical reason for the things that we as Christians consider to be true. I don't agree with it but I find it intriguing.
Zeitgist While watching this movie it was very catchy if thats a word lol. Zeitgist made me look at alot of things differently including THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. However im not going to go a war page about how US is fake lol but i will think more clearly before i just believe what someone tells me.. I really enjoy part 1 and is eager to watch the rest. Zeitgist is by far the best movie we watch in TOK so far!!!! :-)
This is Kabian replying to part one of the Zeitgist movie on religion. At first I thought that the points that they were making made some sense, but after a little while it seemed that they were mixing some truth with some far-fetched astrological references and try to tie it in to fit to their own biased opinion. However, they did make a good point about how government uses religion to bind and opress th people because they know if they control religion, they control the person. Since religion involves a lot faith in things you cant see or are tangible, it is really easy to alter someones religious outake with your opinions or completely brain wash them with your own religion applied in an diffrent way(as was seen with the slaves when slave masters kept them under subjection using the bible verse "servants obey your masters"). Personally i thought they went to far with the connections with the sun and the horoscopes it just seemed to far fetched, and whose to say that those astrological references are anymore credible than the religions that they are using them to disprove? Who told them that when the stars are aligned a certain way that this means that? If they say the ancients then how do they know that they didn't receive this knowledge from the same gods or God that they are trying to disprove? This is why it is extremely important to anchor yourself in the truth and have a stead fast belief or else you can persuaded by anyone coming along with any load of bologna. Finally another problem i had with part one is that they disproved or downed a whole lot religion but had no kind of reasoning or answer as to what is true if the religion we believe is faulty. But overall i enjoyed the rest of the movie far more than the first part, especially part two.
The first part of zeitgeist really made me question somethings in my religion over the break.Then i watch the movie again and now i belief on jesus is kinda of lenient point where i have to ask my grandmom to answer some questions. This movie is a real eye opener
The part of zeitgeist was really interesting. It made some interesting points and showed some interesting things. However, I feel that their whole basis for the argument was based on their interpretation. For example, when they said that by the end of times it really it meant age that was their interpretation of the verse. A different person could've seen that verse in an entirely different way. Not to mention that the current bible has books cut out of it and that very few people have probably seen the true,complete and original bible. Now I've always had a few questions about my belief. But one thing that has held me to Christianity is that I find it very hard to belief that when we die that's it. That what we did in the physical world wont have an impact when we die. Other than that while Part 1 was interesting, it didn't rattle me or make me drastically change my current opinion.
The first part of Zeitgeist showed how the Christian faith is flawed in many ways ,and went on to try and disprove it. I found it very interesting to see them try and do this. Many of the things they said were true like how Christianity is intertwined with paganism. I have known of how Christianity is mixed up with these things, because of what I have been taught and researched on my own. However, their quest to disprove God and this faith was a fail. They came up with some theory that the Bible was only a simple story from the stars. With this theory they had little proof ,and fact to back this up. They drew random scriptures of the Bible, and try to tie them to a star or a zodiac symbol. This is when they lose fact and come up with their own theory. A theory that could easily be shown wrong if someone else had another idea. This is why their alternative is no better than the Bible, and believing in God. Therefore, people should not believe everything they hear, see, or have been taught with out researching it first. One should not base their beliefs only what they have been told. This is regardless of if you have been taught about God or that you have been taught their is no god. Any way research it yourself and make your judgement. Part1 helped to see that you have to study for yourself and then make your assessment of things to see the truth, your truth.
Thanks Ciana! I was waiting for someone to notice that Zeitgeist "cherry picked" scriptures to make their point! I agree with your comment "study for yourself." Thanks for your post!
Watching this video in class had me questioning my religious background that I have been taught all my life. I think it's so weird how the Egytian "gods" have so much similar background to Christian god. Also, now I believe that 911 or terriost attack was a set up and President Bush had aloot to do with it. I cant watch to continue this video in class.
Hi DeAhjane--they never talked about that when I was in Sunday school. Then again, my teachers probably had no idea of the similarities with Horus. Thanks for posting!
The first part of Zeitgeist really pointed out some things that made me wonder. Some things were being born on Dec. 25 and born of a virgin. This movie has encouraged me to look more into my religion.
I thought the first part of Zeitgeist was interesting and entertaining. It was intriguing to see how the creators placed together different aspects of mythology and linked them with religion. Although it was interesting, it doesn't change the way I feel about religion (even though that was not the goal of showing the movie). I think that the things they said made sense but where is the proof to show that what they said is accurate? What makes anything they said true? We have no valid proof that anything presented to us as far as science and religion is true. That is one of the things about life that we can't control. I can throw together a whole bunch of ideas that SEEM to connect with a popular belief and try to disprove it but who's to say anything I say is accurate? We cannot simply believe any old thing someone presents to us just because it seems to make sense. That can apply to the ideas in the movie or your religion period. The ideas in the movie seemed to correlate with what we're told is true when we're taught about the Bible but I still don't think a movie is a valid reason to throw away everything you've ever believed when no exact proof or back ups are given. In my opinion, the entire part one of the movie was just a bunch of stories put together to try to validate a personal opinion on Christianity and religion as a whole.
The first part of Zeitgeist made me think alot about my religion.The movie had me really thinking in church about what my pastor was preaching about. By me being a christian I was actually shock in how much Jesus has in commmon with other religious figures and the son God. I've previously heard of the name son God, but my knowledge was never really much further than that before the movie. The most interesting part was when the creators were explainging how the translation about the end of the world as been misinterpreted in scripture and it really means until the end of the age. What I got out of Zeitgeist part one was that their is not vaild proof about all the many things that are taught to us about relgion through out our life.No religion is more superior than the other. Also, I have never thought about the billions of dollars religion brings in each year. I can say personally I contribute to all this money Christianity makes every Sunday.
Atheism! I guess I heard a lot on this topic before. As a Hindu, I don’t know many things about Christianity, even though I could understand what the movie was saying. This is not a new concept; it’s happening with every religion in the world. If there is good then there will be evil too. People never get the same results as they wish to. People always compare positive and negative. So being an atheist is not a bad thing. Every man has his own opinion therefore you can’t blame one person for not believing in god at the same time you can’t change one man’s believes. Therefore nothing new to me to comment about part one of Zeitgeist. It depends on each and everyone’s perception.
Wow. The first part of Zeitgeist has really put a "spin" on the aspect of religion. As a Christian, the claim that the ideal of Jesus Christ is derived from Horus, the Sun God opens my mind and encourages me to really dig deep within my professed religion. As far as the other gods, I admit it sound purely coincidental or it's just a crock of bull. Zeitgeist is by far one of the most eye-opening movies I have ever watched. Although, the authors of Zeitgeist make some logical points comparing the ideal of Jesus and the coming of the "Age" with the astrological signs and constellations, I still stand firm in my faith--after all, they may have questioned the origin of religion, but they never expressed that there WASN'T a higher power guiding our lives. hmmmmm....interesting indeed. ;)
The first part of Zeitgeist I found to be very interesting. No doubt did I wonder about my religion but I also became to wonder about religion as a whole. There were some things in the documentary that really wowed me but all in all I enjoyed watching the first part!
Part one of zeitgeist was extremely one sided to me. Its like they put only the bits and pieces that helped their argument. There are too many outliars to ignore them all in my opinion. When they said history repeated itself I did not really believe that. The Romans changed things in the Bible, so even though seems like Jesus had the same birthday and died the same time as others during history, he really didn't. His actual birth date and death is unknown till this day. Just because Jesus was not discussed by philosophers does not mean that he did not exist, it just means that there is no proof. In a case the defendant is innocent until proven guilt without a doubt, that is the same thing with God and Jesus. You can not say without a doubt that they are real or not real. I still believe and have faith that they are real, if anything it probably strengthen my belief. I did not hats the first part of the movie, but it wads not my favorite.
Zeitgeist Part 1 was very interesting. In some ways, I could see how the astrology would connect to Jesus and his story because back then, people only had the stars to guide them. They didn't have GPS or any technology back then. It really makes you question what you have been taught your whole life.
The first part of Zeitgeist was very thought provoking for me. I was fascinated by all of the things that were very similar to my religion. I had to remember that Mr. Harris didn't want us to think that he was trying to convert us and I have to admit I had to question my faith a little. Interesting as it may seem, I will not be swayed by a video to believe my religion is wrong. Everyone has their own opinion. :-). Above everything though I enjoyed the first part of Zeitgeist. No harm done. Can't wait to watch many more.
The first part of Zeitegeist was immensely intriguing. I loved how the film questions the faith of many americans who often believe things dealing with faith without reason, thought, or a deeper explantation of why things are they way they are. I agree a great deal with Ciana's post about the movie and how you should look into researching the origin of things yourself and not always believe what the majority does or how things have 'always' been. Due to my upbringing and individual research this is not my first time being exposed to something of this nature. Even if you do not agree with the Zeitgeist analysis in terms of the bible or anything that challenges the holy scripture of christians, I have always admired those who at least listen and who do not automatically shun receiving information that is abnormal for them. :)
This movie definitely opened my eyes to things I never knew. I really enjoyed the way they attempted to disclaim Christianity, however, upon my own research I found a few flaws within what was said. The flaws were based on a "religious" aspect, therefore, making it not debatable or not "logical" in a human aspect. After watching the first part over again it struck me that "if" Jesus Christ was proven to have existed then that would destroy the purpose of having faith in God and therefore destroying the reason for even worshiping under the religion. Matter of fact, if everyone knew Jesus exist, I'm pretty sure a vast majority of people would probably be under some christian descent when it came to religion. What makes religion, religion, is that it's not able to be fully proven or understood and it's all structured on faith. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We can't physically prove God or Jesus exist, however, we have faith in his presence. Religion is super natural, therefore, reason and logic will always collide with it's various teachings, that's just the way it is. To be honest, reason is a powerful tool that is often use to destroy religion.
I'm not sure what to think. I personally feel that the writers chose verses that helped them out, regardless of the background of what was happening in the book at the time. I think the significance of multiple "points" was reduced by the cherry-picking (term via Ciana). I personally did not see it as an attack on religion itself, so much as a finger pointing at modern religion. Though, this hasn't changed my faith in the least. If anything, it has strengthened it. I actually rather enjoyed this part.
I just realized my comment apparently didn't go through.
Basically, I found Part One to be immensely entertaining and interesting. The argument presented was definitely well prepared, and the creators of the movie did an excellent job in finding the right scriptures and bits of information to include without making their own side seem questionable. There are, undoubtedly, other things that could disprove some of the things that they said, but for the sake of the movie everything was perfect. I definitely enjoyed all the many connections most religions share, since I've always found many religions to be basically the same thing with just a few details adjusted to separate one religion from the other.
I thought the movie was interesting because it made some good points and definitely got me thinking. I do believe in religion,or at least consider it, but to a certain extent. Some of the things don't make much sense to me and it starts to make me question religion in general. Overall, the movie was enjoyable and I can't wait to see the next part.
Before watching Zeitgeist, I already had my suspicions about religion and definitely about our government. While watching there were two new things in particular that really surprised me. The first thing that surprised me was learning that the money churches receive from tithes is tax free. The second was the building 7 cover up. The only time i had ever heard mention of building 7 was in a song by Lupe Fiasco called "Words I Never Said".
Zeitgeist is a very good and supicious video. The religion part is very interesting . It makes you question whether jesus is true or not . The video did bought up some good points about other religions also. I like how with his argument , he provided evidence and he did some comparison . This really put alot of questions in my mind
Zeitgeist was very interesting. I like learning new and different view points. This is different. I can't prove that the Jesus story is true, but it didn't change my belief. I don't think you can take parts of a scripture, and not use the entire thing to prove your point. It was a good try.
Zeitgeist was much different then I anticipated. The first part of the film, which talked about religion, seem a little over the top and exaggerated. It does however sketch some facts in some areas and make some valid points, but it blew those points waaaaayyyy out of proportion. It was actually starting to confuse me. Overall, part one was interesting. Not what I expected though. Maybe it would have been better if they just stuck to facts and not inflate them to much.
I personally already question my religion but we all have our doubts from time to time. The first time I watched the movie it made me question my beliefs more than I ever have before. But that was before I realized they hand picked what scriptures they used. No matter how many good points they may have made they are all discredited in my eyes because I could twist the words to mean whatever I wanted they to I'd I hand picked the scriptures. Even after making me question my religion it just proved that things like this come to test and challenge you but wether it brake or make you is up too you. Thank you for exposing me to movies like this.
this movie has been very interesting to me so far. it has also changed my outlook on religion and how it is viewed in the world by others. i now have alot of questions about religion moreso on christianity...i never knew that there were other gods in past civilizations that were so similar in jesus christ!! This is definetly an eye-opener!!
The first part of zeitgeist was something i never experienced seeing it opened my eyes to something new and diffrent. it made me think about things a little deeper and not so close minded. somethings part 1 talked about left me in complete shock. i really enjoyed the first part of Zeitgeist and i'm gonna let other people know about it to see there reaction.
Sadly to say.... I fell asleep on a little bit of this part . But when I did wake up the parts I saw really made me see things in different perspectives. Before watching zeitgeist I was so close minded on many things but now that I have seen this one, when I think about things I analyze and think them through and think about the hows and why things happen the way they do. I enjoyed the part of this zeitgeist I watched.
Hey this is Jasmine. I just wanted to say that religion played a large part in the way that people try to find reason in things. I loved the part that talked about how astrology had a role in the story of Jesus and other gods from various cultures.
I believe that this is a bad way to use astrology and that there is no true way to defend from this as the some of the books from the Bible were taken out to organize society which is exactly what Zeitgeist is fighting against plus who is to say that the story of other gods were not inspired by the story of Jesus and other books that could of been different perspective that are closely related to the Bible plus this argument doesn't really disprove that God does not exist as you cannot truly prove that he doesn't it really seem to me that it is just trying to disprove what in the Bible and does a poor job of that as it just bring up a bunch of points that attack the Bible while this could of been a very good convergent argument it has no conclusion and each points is not supported strongly enough to completely disprove the Bible or That God does not exist it basically just open your eyes to new perspectives
Unfortunately the first post I attempted put up here didn't publish -___-,so here I am once again. The first part of Zeitgeist beyond intriguing.I'm a very good listener as it pertains to listening to other peoples opinions on certain topics especially one as controversial as religion. Religion was the topic of discussion in this segment, and I thought their comparison of Jesus to Horus, was a little much because it goes against what I am being taught religiously,but more so interesting. Since I'm open minded I wasn't offended ,it just exposed me other perspectives.
Hello Mr. Harris, this is Connor. Watching this segment of the video, I saw that it was talking about religion and it was very interesting how they were linking astrology to Jesus and such. I learned alot and it changed my perspective on a few things, but some things I thought were a bit outrageous.
The first part of Zeitgeist made me question the U.S. government. The way the producers broke down the 911 "explosion" had me thinking it may have been the government who caused the supposedly "Terrorist Attack". The second part went more into depth which continued me question it. The way we have a small amount of people to control the inflation of our money is strange.
ReplyDeleteUhhh...Deedee, that's part 2 :-) Part 1 dealt with religion, but thanks for posting! :-)
ReplyDeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist really got to me and open my eyes to religion. I mean not all of that could have been plan by the devil. That would be just plain idiotic to believe that. So many stories just like jesus and one even in the bible. I am one who already question religion but this just gave me everything i need to see the truth. Part 1 was very inspiring so now i will do my own research into it.
ReplyDeleteAhhh, wonderful! Life-long learner!
DeleteOh I believe I am the first person to correctly do this:). *coughs* extra credit *coughs*. Okay the first of part of Zeitgeist was by far the most interesting thing that has happened in our TOK class. Some parts were boring, hence me falling asleep. It was interesting how these people were directly challenging the Christian religion. Zeitgeist claims that Horus the sun god was one of the myths that early Christians borrowed to develop the initial idea of Jesus Christ. Zeitgeist claims that Jesus and Horus had many similarities. They were basically denying the existence of Jesus. Which is hard to believe, because for some of us religion is beat into us from a very young age. All we have ever known is that religion and its interesting to have it questioned and have other possibilities out there. In the end, religion always comes down to personal interpretations and belief. So everybody is entitled to there opinion. Ready to see the rest of it:)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to read that you found something interesting :-). As you transition into adulthood, you will have to gain some stamina for dealing with what you consider "boring." I'm bored and going to sleep is not going to blaze a path for your success in college or the workforce. Be alert and focused!
DeleteNow, focus on your statement "Which is hard to believe, because for some of us religion is beat into us from a very young age." Name that fallacy! :-)
False Analogy?? :)
DeleteI didn't see Lawrence's post -__-.
ReplyDeleteI think that the first part of the zeitgeist by far one of the most thought provoking and intresting documetries I have ever seen. I personally love documentries and watch alot of them and so far part 1 has made zeitgeist one of my favorites. The movies explinations about the constant use of certain numbers and themes in the bible, and how they relate to past religions was very eye opening. I think that this movie also shows were peoples minds are in the scence of faith. Those who believe in christ see movies like this and they test your faith with facts. The whole point of religion being called "faith" is because there are not many facts, there simply is "faith". Everyone believes or dosnt believe for their own reasons however for someone who dosent believe this would be the perfect defense of why..
ReplyDeleteThanks for your post, Jordan. You bring up a very good point--"faith" is not "reason."It's OK to have faith, just don't use faith as evidence in a reasoned argument.
DeleteWhile watching the first part of Zeitgeist my mind started wondering. This movie made me understand that there is more to things than it seems. Although this movie went against everything that i was taught to believe in, it really made me think. In all honesty I truly enjoyed the argument because of all the new facts that were brought to my attention. Although I don't particularly agree, I truly support an argument that has facts to back it up....
ReplyDeleteThanks Diamond! Welcome to critical thinking! I am not saying Zeitgeist is right or wrong--that is up to you to decide. I try to provide you with the tools to recognize fallacies and argument structures. :-)
DeleteZeitgeist finally brought out something I always wondered. The control religion has on people and it went into far more detail as to how these religious ideas are formed and where they come from. Its easy to write an essay on the topic but right now we can only write a comment on a blog post. Zeitgeist interestingly doesn't actually attack Christian people, it only attacks the people who control the religion. In class people quote it as saying "Jesus did not exist" that's not what it said, it said that "there's proof that the figure known as Jesus did not exist" its not stating religion is a lie, its saying that religion has no backing to it, when looking for support to prove religion you run into several older stories that predate Christianity. The problem is we give Christians uncalled for importance. Think about it: greek, roman and Norse mythology is just that, a myth. Its completely accepted that these one time religions are myths, why? What makes them different from Christians? Thor, Norse god of thunder, had the same story as Jesus as shown in the video. So why is Jesus a historical, religious figure but Thor is a bedtime story? The documentary also said that maybe Christianity was made by the roman people so they could control the world. Which they did successful for hundreds of years also stated in history books and Zeitgeist. 2000 years ago, Thor and the Asgardian gods had the same controlling authority as Jesus and god. Yet Thor is now fake and Jesus is real. And as it showed that the bible shows of a new age, thors age ended and jesus' age came and soon it will go too. Im not saying Christians have a fake religion or even that the Norse gods don't exists, I'm saying that like it says in the documentary every religion has its time and it will pass. every religion is taken so seriously that it corrupts our society. The crusades, the Inquisition, the witch trials, "donating" to god in a church, the pope. All these figures and ideas are just people taking things to far and not the fault of the religion. Thor mint exist and Jesus might exist but you don't have to use that to control everything you do. The bible is a collection of STORIES that teach you LESSONS. Its not there to frame your society around, its there to teach you morals and to be good people. Its not there for the reward of heaven and hell after death, its there to make you good people NOW. Not in the afterlife cause what does that matter? Lets say heaven and hell doesn't exist. If nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do cause that's ALL THERE IS. What we do, Thor was a hero his brother was a liar, the lesson? Be kind fair and just. The bible? Don't hurt others by way of murder or lies or sex, be good people. Why is this simple simple simple idea turned into "Jesus is the only one! You are all wrong! Forget human math! Ascend to heaven!" Newsflash, heaven is death, are you saying be good people just so you get a reward? Lets see...doing something because you get something out of it? Isn't that...I don't know....selfish? Is that what your learning? Cause If so I don't want that. People have to want to be good people. The bible, Thor, Zeus, mars, Jupiter are all throughout history to tell us the same basic story of being good people, not to regard every word they say as authority and dominant with there message. To paraphrase Zeitgeist, take truth as the authority rather then authority as the truth. Just cause the church says "join the crusades and be saved" don't do it. If you truly want to be saved you'll be a good person by nature and you won't do it just so you get into heaven.
ReplyDeleteI truly enjoyed reading your post Steve! You bring up several interesting issues (religion as a tool for social control, exclusive claims on truth by religions, is religion necessary for morality?) and you make distinctions between various claims.
DeleteYou certainly have the "geist" of TOK!
Part 1 of zeitgeist was a real eye opener for me. Seeing all the connections and similarities between Jesus and the messiahs of other religions has changed my mind on religion. I already had suspicions that religion was used as a means to manipulate people but the movie confirmed it for me. I myself don't blindly follow religion but I've seen people do so like the movie describes. As far as im concerned religion is just the same story being passed around with different characters and different events. The reason why, to me at least, Christianity is recognized but things like Greek myths aren't is because the myths stopped being able to control people. Part 1 helped me to further realize that the government and other higher ups have and are lying to people through things like religion.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your post Khalil. What do you think Zeitgeist is saying about myths?
DeletePart 1 of Zeitgeist really had me thinking about the truth behind religion. I always use to think the religion was a way for people to look forward to something. That they needed something to believe in. I use to think that religion was just another set of rules for people to follow. As far as Zeitgeist, it proved my point on the fact that religion chains people to what they can and can't do because of that fear they have on where they may go after death. The fact that there's a link between Jesus and other almighty people of other religions made me realize and see the connection that the same story is being told just with different names. It made me wonder what was the truth? I'm not saying that what was said in the movie was all true but they did make valid points about religion the made me wonder if what I grew up being told was all true.
ReplyDeleteThanks Khaliya--I often wonder what is the truth?
DeleteSo when we first began talking about the movie and i found out the name was Zeitgeist and you explained how it meant time ghost, I thought that it would be boring. This movie in my opinion is ine of the best movies i have seen so far. Part I dealt with religion a sunject that not people talk about due to personal reasons. I liked it because it made me think. It gave a logical reason for the things that we as Christians consider to be true. I don't agree with it but I find it intriguing.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to read you find it interesting, Jamari!
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ReplyDeleteWell said Amani :-)
DeleteZeitgist
ReplyDeleteWhile watching this movie it was very catchy if thats a word lol. Zeitgist made me look at alot of things differently including THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. However im not going to go a war page about how US is fake lol but i will think more clearly before i just believe what someone tells me.. I really enjoy part 1 and is eager to watch the rest. Zeitgist is by far the best movie we watch in TOK so far!!!! :-)
I'm pleased to read that you liked Zeitgeist! And thinking more clearly is the purpose of the course :-)
DeleteThis is Kabian replying to part one of the Zeitgist movie on religion. At first I thought that the points that they were making made some sense, but after a little while it seemed that they were mixing some truth with some far-fetched astrological references and try to tie it in to fit to their own biased opinion. However, they did make a good point about how government uses religion to bind and opress th people because they know if they control religion, they control the person. Since religion involves a lot faith in things you cant see or are tangible, it is really easy to alter someones religious outake with your opinions or completely brain wash them with your own religion applied in an diffrent way(as was seen with the slaves when slave masters kept them under subjection using the bible verse "servants obey your masters"). Personally i thought they went to far with the connections with the sun and the horoscopes it just seemed to far fetched, and whose to say that those astrological references are anymore credible than the religions that they are using them to disprove? Who told them that when the stars are aligned a certain way that this means that? If they say the ancients then how do they know that they didn't receive this knowledge from the same gods or God that they are trying to disprove? This is why it is extremely important to anchor yourself in the truth and have a stead fast belief or else you can persuaded by anyone coming along with any load of bologna. Finally another problem i had with part one is that they disproved or downed a whole lot religion but had no kind of reasoning or answer as to what is true if the religion we believe is faulty. But overall i enjoyed the rest of the movie far more than the first part, especially part two.
ReplyDeleteKabian, your post reminded me of a quote from the film "I don't know what God is, but I know what he isn't..." What do make of that?
DeleteThe first part of zeitgeist really made me question somethings in my religion over the break.Then i watch the movie again and now i belief on jesus is kinda of lenient point where i have to ask my grandmom to answer some questions. This movie is a real eye opener
ReplyDeleteIt is always good to question, Alex. Thanks for posting!
DeleteThe part of zeitgeist was really interesting. It made some interesting points and showed some interesting things. However, I feel that their whole basis for the argument was based on their interpretation. For example, when they said that by the end of times it really it meant age that was their interpretation of the verse. A different person could've seen that verse in an entirely different way. Not to mention that the current bible has books cut out of it and that very few people have probably seen the true,complete and original bible. Now I've always had a few questions about my belief. But one thing that has held me to Christianity is that I find it very hard to belief that when we die that's it. That what we did in the physical world wont have an impact when we die. Other than that while Part 1 was interesting, it didn't rattle me or make me drastically change my current opinion.
ReplyDeleteHi Austin, I don't think Zeitgeist addressed the after death question. Thanks for posting!
DeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist showed how the Christian faith is flawed in many ways ,and went on to try and disprove it. I found it very interesting to see them try and do this. Many of the things they said were true like how Christianity is intertwined with paganism. I have known of how Christianity is mixed up with these things, because of what I have been taught and researched on my own. However, their quest to disprove God and this faith was a fail. They came up with some theory that the Bible was only a simple story from the stars. With this theory they had little proof ,and fact to back this up. They drew random scriptures of the Bible, and try to tie them to a star or a zodiac symbol. This is when they lose fact and come up with their own theory. A theory that could easily be shown wrong if someone else had another idea. This is why their alternative is no better than the Bible, and believing in God. Therefore, people should not believe everything they hear, see, or have been taught with out researching it first. One should not base their beliefs only what they have been told. This is regardless of if you have been taught about God or that you have been taught their is no god. Any way research it yourself and make your judgement. Part1 helped to see that you have to study for yourself and then make your assessment of things to see the truth, your truth.
ReplyDeleteThanks Ciana! I was waiting for someone to notice that Zeitgeist "cherry picked" scriptures to make their point! I agree with your comment "study for yourself." Thanks for your post!
DeleteWatching this video in class had me questioning my religious background that I have been taught all my life. I think it's so weird how the Egytian "gods" have so much similar background to Christian god. Also, now I believe that 911 or terriost attack was a set up and President Bush had aloot to do with it. I cant watch to continue this video in class.
ReplyDeleteHi DeAhjane--they never talked about that when I was in Sunday school. Then again, my teachers probably had no idea of the similarities with Horus. Thanks for posting!
DeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist really pointed out some things that made me wonder. Some things were being born on Dec. 25 and born of a virgin. This movie has encouraged me to look more into my religion.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your post, DeeDee! One of the goals of this course is to make you think about your thinking!
DeleteI thought the first part of Zeitgeist was interesting and entertaining. It was intriguing to see how the creators placed together different aspects of mythology and linked them with religion. Although it was interesting, it doesn't change the way I feel about religion (even though that was not the goal of showing the movie). I think that the things they said made sense but where is the proof to show that what they said is accurate? What makes anything they said true? We have no valid proof that anything presented to us as far as science and religion is true. That is one of the things about life that we can't control. I can throw together a whole bunch of ideas that SEEM to connect with a popular belief and try to disprove it but who's to say anything I say is accurate? We cannot simply believe any old thing someone presents to us just because it seems to make sense. That can apply to the ideas in the movie or your religion period. The ideas in the movie seemed to correlate with what we're told is true when we're taught about the Bible but I still don't think a movie is a valid reason to throw away everything you've ever believed when no exact proof or back ups are given. In my opinion, the entire part one of the movie was just a bunch of stories put together to try to validate a personal opinion on Christianity and religion as a whole.
ReplyDeleteHi Taylor. Did the movie inspire you to do any research?
DeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist made me think alot about my religion.The movie had me really thinking in church about what my pastor was preaching about. By me being a christian I was actually shock in how much Jesus has in commmon with other religious figures and the son God. I've previously heard of the name son God, but my knowledge was never really much further than that before the movie. The most interesting part was when the creators were explainging how the translation about the end of the world as been misinterpreted in scripture and it really means until the end of the age. What I got out of Zeitgeist part one was that their is not vaild proof about all the many things that are taught to us about relgion through out our life.No religion is more superior than the other. Also, I have never thought about the billions of dollars religion brings in each year. I can say personally I contribute to all this money Christianity makes every Sunday.
ReplyDeleteAtheism! I guess I heard a lot on this topic before. As a Hindu, I don’t know many things about Christianity, even though I could understand what the movie was saying. This is not a new concept; it’s happening with every religion in the world. If there is good then there will be evil too. People never get the same results as they wish to. People always compare positive and negative. So being an atheist is not a bad thing. Every man has his own opinion therefore you can’t blame one person for not believing in god at the same time you can’t change one man’s believes. Therefore nothing new to me to comment about part one of Zeitgeist. It depends on each and everyone’s perception.
ReplyDeleteWow. The first part of Zeitgeist has really put a "spin" on the aspect of religion. As a Christian, the claim that the ideal of Jesus Christ is derived from Horus, the Sun God opens my mind and encourages me to really dig deep within my professed religion. As far as the other gods, I admit it sound purely coincidental or it's just a crock of bull. Zeitgeist is by far one of the most eye-opening movies I have ever watched. Although, the authors of Zeitgeist make some logical points comparing the ideal of Jesus and the coming of the "Age" with the astrological signs and constellations, I still stand firm in my faith--after all, they may have questioned the origin of religion, but they never expressed that there WASN'T a higher power guiding our lives. hmmmmm....interesting indeed. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist I found to be very interesting. No doubt did I wonder about my religion but I also became to wonder about religion as a whole. There were some things in the documentary that really wowed me but all in all I enjoyed watching the first part!
ReplyDeletePart one of zeitgeist was extremely one sided to me. Its like they put only the bits and pieces that helped their argument. There are too many outliars to ignore them all in my opinion. When they said history repeated itself I did not really believe that. The Romans changed things in the Bible, so even though seems like Jesus had the same birthday and died the same time as others during history, he really didn't. His actual birth date and death is unknown till this day. Just because Jesus was not discussed by philosophers does not mean that he did not exist, it just means that there is no proof. In a case the defendant is innocent until proven guilt without a doubt, that is the same thing with God and Jesus. You can not say without a doubt that they are real or not real. I still believe and have faith that they are real, if anything it probably strengthen my belief. I did not hats the first part of the movie, but it wads not my favorite.
ReplyDeleteZeitgeist Part 1 was very interesting. In some ways, I could see how the astrology would connect to Jesus and his story because back then, people only had the stars to guide them. They didn't have GPS or any technology back then. It really makes you question what you have been taught your whole life.
ReplyDeleteThe first part of Zeitgeist was very thought provoking for me. I was fascinated by all of the things that were very similar to my religion. I had to remember that Mr. Harris didn't want us to think that he was trying to convert us and I have to admit I had to question my faith a little. Interesting as it may seem, I will not be swayed by a video to believe my religion is wrong. Everyone has their own opinion. :-). Above everything though I enjoyed the first part of Zeitgeist. No harm done. Can't wait to watch many more.
ReplyDeleteThe first part of Zeitegeist was immensely intriguing. I loved how the film questions the faith of many americans who often believe things dealing with faith without reason, thought, or a deeper explantation of why things are they way they are. I agree a great deal with Ciana's post about the movie and how you should look into researching the origin of things yourself and not always believe what the majority does or how things have 'always' been. Due to my upbringing and individual research this is not my first time being exposed to something of this nature. Even if you do not agree with the Zeitgeist analysis in terms of the bible or anything that challenges the holy scripture of christians, I have always admired those who at least listen and who do not automatically shun receiving information that is abnormal for them. :)
ReplyDelete-- Saidah R. Wright
This movie definitely opened my eyes to things I never knew. I really enjoyed the way they attempted to disclaim Christianity, however, upon my own research I found a few flaws within what was said. The flaws were based on a "religious" aspect, therefore, making it not debatable or not "logical" in a human aspect. After watching the first part over again it struck me that "if" Jesus Christ was proven to have existed then that would destroy the purpose of having faith in God and therefore destroying the reason for even worshiping under the religion. Matter of fact, if everyone knew Jesus exist, I'm pretty sure a vast majority of people would probably be under some christian descent when it came to religion. What makes religion, religion, is that it's not able to be fully proven or understood and it's all structured on faith. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We can't physically prove God or Jesus exist, however, we have faith in his presence. Religion is super natural, therefore, reason and logic will always collide with it's various teachings, that's just the way it is. To be honest, reason is a powerful tool that is often use to destroy religion.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what to think. I personally feel that the writers chose verses that helped them out, regardless of the background of what was happening in the book at the time. I think the significance of multiple "points" was reduced by the cherry-picking (term via Ciana). I personally did not see it as an attack on religion itself, so much as a finger pointing at modern religion. Though, this hasn't changed my faith in the least. If anything, it has strengthened it. I actually rather enjoyed this part.
ReplyDeleteI just realized my comment apparently didn't go through.
ReplyDeleteBasically, I found Part One to be immensely entertaining and interesting. The argument presented was definitely well prepared, and the creators of the movie did an excellent job in finding the right scriptures and bits of information to include without making their own side seem questionable. There are, undoubtedly, other things that could disprove some of the things that they said, but for the sake of the movie everything was perfect. I definitely enjoyed all the many connections most religions share, since I've always found many religions to be basically the same thing with just a few details adjusted to separate one religion from the other.
I thought the movie was interesting because it made some good points and definitely got me thinking. I do believe in religion,or at least consider it, but to a certain extent. Some of the things don't make much sense to me and it starts to make me question religion in general. Overall, the movie was enjoyable and I can't wait to see the next part.
ReplyDeleteBefore watching Zeitgeist, I already had my suspicions about religion and definitely about our government. While watching there were two new things in particular that really surprised me. The first thing that surprised me was learning that the money churches receive from tithes is tax free. The second was the building 7 cover up. The only time i had ever heard mention of building 7 was in a song by Lupe Fiasco called "Words I Never Said".
ReplyDeleteZeitgeist is a very good and supicious video. The religion part is very interesting . It makes you question whether jesus is true or not . The video did bought up some good points about other religions also. I like how with his argument , he provided evidence and he did some comparison . This really put alot of questions in my mind
ReplyDeleteZeitgeist was very interesting. I like learning new and different view points. This is different. I can't prove that the Jesus story is true, but it didn't change my belief. I don't think you can take parts of a scripture, and not use the entire thing to prove your point. It was a good try.
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ReplyDeleteZeitgeist was much different then I anticipated. The first part of the film, which talked about religion, seem a little over the top and exaggerated. It does however sketch some facts in some areas and make some valid points, but it blew those points waaaaayyyy out of proportion. It was actually starting to confuse me. Overall, part one was interesting. Not what I expected though. Maybe it would have been better if they just stuck to facts and not inflate them to much.
ReplyDeleteI personally already question my religion but we all have our doubts from time to time. The first time I watched the movie it made me question my beliefs more than I ever have before. But that was before I realized they hand picked what scriptures they used. No matter how many good points they may have made they are all discredited in my eyes because I could twist the words to mean whatever I wanted they to I'd I hand picked the scriptures. Even after making me question my religion it just proved that things like this come to test and challenge you but wether it brake or make you is up too you. Thank you for exposing me to movies like this.
ReplyDeletethis movie has been very interesting to me so far. it has also changed my outlook on religion and how it is viewed in the world by others. i now have alot of questions about religion moreso on christianity...i never knew that there were other gods in past civilizations that were so similar in jesus christ!! This is definetly an eye-opener!!
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DeleteThe first part of zeitgeist was something i never experienced seeing it opened my eyes to something new and diffrent. it made me think about things a little deeper and not so close minded. somethings part 1 talked about left me in complete shock. i really enjoyed the first part of Zeitgeist and i'm gonna let other people know about it to see there reaction.
ReplyDeleteSadly to say.... I fell asleep on a little bit of this part . But when I did wake up the parts I saw really made me see things in different perspectives. Before watching zeitgeist I was so close minded on many things but now that I have seen this one, when I think about things I analyze and think them through and think about the hows and why things happen the way they do. I enjoyed the part of this zeitgeist I watched.
ReplyDeleteHey this is Jasmine. I just wanted to say that religion played a large part in the way that people try to find reason in things. I loved the part that talked about how astrology had a role in the story of Jesus and other gods from various cultures.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this is a bad way to use astrology and that there is no true way to defend from this as the some of the books from the Bible were taken out to organize society which is exactly what Zeitgeist is fighting against plus who is to say that the story of other gods were not inspired by the story of Jesus and other books that could of been different perspective that are closely related to the Bible plus this argument doesn't really disprove that God does not exist as you cannot truly prove that he doesn't it really seem to me that it is just trying to disprove what in the Bible and does a poor job of that as it just bring up a bunch of points that attack the Bible while this could of been a very good convergent argument it has no conclusion and each points is not supported strongly enough to completely disprove the Bible or That God does not exist it basically just open your eyes to new perspectives
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the first post I attempted put up here didn't publish -___-,so here I am once again. The first part of Zeitgeist beyond intriguing.I'm a very good listener as it pertains to listening to other peoples opinions on certain topics especially one as controversial as religion. Religion was the topic of discussion in this segment, and I thought their comparison of Jesus to Horus, was a little much because it goes against what I am being taught religiously,but more so interesting. Since I'm open minded I wasn't offended ,it just exposed me other perspectives.
ReplyDeleteOK, I will update TOK blogs tomorrow
ReplyDeleteHello Mr. Harris, this is Connor. Watching this segment of the video, I saw that it was talking about religion and it was very interesting how they were linking astrology to Jesus and such. I learned alot and it changed my perspective on a few things, but some things I thought were a bit outrageous.
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